What No One Told You About Retirement with Dorian Mintzer, M.S.W., Ph.D.

Join Kosta and his guest: Dr. Dorian Minzter, experienced Therapist, Life and Retirement Transition Coach, Relationship Coach, Executive Coach, Author, Speaker and Teacher.

Today we’re talking about what no one told you about retirement.

In this episode: In 2023, what does a successful retirement look like? How can we more accurately predict what we actually need to retire? What are the greatest risks for derailing retirement plans and how do we avoid them? What’s your advice to the children of parents that have no retirement plan?

Find out more about Dr. Dorian Mintzer:
https://revolutionizeretirement.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAK0nhVIBSloGHAKDtfHauw

Find out more about Kosta Yepifantsev:
https://kostayepifantsev.com/

Transcript

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 0:04

Some people sort of think, Ah, I don't need to plan it, I can just wing it. You know, I'm just so happy. I don't have to work. Some people feel that way. I really think it's very important at whatever age you are to start thinking about what's the course of life that you're hoping for, for yourself. We are living longer, and people don't want to outlive their money. And, you know, it may be that, you know, people need to start thinking ahead of, you know, if these are some of the goals and dreams that I have, what do I need to do to be able to support that?

Caroline Moore: 0:40

Welcome to Now or Never Long-Term Care Strategy with Kosta Yepifantsev a podcast for all those seeking answers and solutions in the long term care space. This podcast is designed to create resources, start conversations and bring awareness to the industry that will inevitably impact all Americans. Here's your host Kosta Yepifantsev.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 1:03

Hey, y'all, it's Kosta. Today, I'm here with my guest, Dr. Dorian Mintzer, experienced therapist life and retirement transition coach, relationship coach, executive coach, author, speaker and teacher. Today we're talking about what no one told you about retirement documents or in 2023? What is the successful retirement look like?

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 1:27

Now, I hate to disappoint some of your listeners to say there is no right way to retire. Okay. There are many different pictures of what a successful retirement looks like. Because now that we're living longer, somebody may be retired from their full time work, and still want to be working in some different ways. And using their skills and having maybe an encore career, or maybe even wanting to phase out their retirement during many of the, quote, retirement years. And many people are just burned out. And a successful retirement might be a honeymoon stage initially. But then what I find is that people begin to feel like something's missing. And so I think a successful retirement is when people have taken stock on what his work meant to them. What's been important, what are the things about work, that maybe they need and want to build into their life, like, a reason to get out of bed in the morning, some structure, some sense of connection, engagement, purpose and meaning. So from my perspective, what I see with people is that a successful retirement really is people who are feeling a sense of well being, maybe using their skills in a different way. Perhaps volunteering, maybe, you know, giving back in some ways, writing memoir, writing, having some time to really enjoy and becoming what I like to think about as an elder, which is developing a perspective and a wisdom that you're able to share with the younger generations. So a successful retirement is, I think, people who feel engaged and vital and connected to the world, maybe still through their work. But maybe having made peace with my identity isn't just my work. And there are many other parts of myself that I want to develop in this stage of life.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 3:34

You know, one of the things that I find so curious, is how, somebody that's 25 years old, or let me let me put it like this 35 years old, and maybe is married and has some kids, and somebody that is 65 or 75 years old, and that's raised children, and has, you know, essentially worked a full career, how differently they approach life and problems. And, and maybe if you could just share from your perspective, like, how do people change their problem solving habits and behaviors as they get older?

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 4:19

What an interesting question. Well, I think, in many ways, we are who we are, right? But I think what's important is that there are certain experiences in life, that if we allow ourselves we can learn from, and so we develop a perception, we develop a sense of our own resilience, we develop hopefully appreciation of other people. And I think that if one's on kind of that growth trajectory, then, you know, as we get older, we're really able to deal in different ways with uncertainty in different ways. As with the complexities of life, there's actually been some interesting studies during COVID, that younger people had more difficulty because of still potentially working, maybe having children at home, not having a sense of having gone through a lot of ups and downs. So I think there's something that comes from just experiencing the vicissitudes of life really. And knowing that somehow we learn how to deal with the ups and downs and good and bad of life, and develop an internal kind of compass and competence. Because when you think about it, all of life really is a series of transitions. And what I find really interesting is, you know, it's true when you're 25, or 35, you've had less transitions, but you still may start having a pattern of, do you have more trouble with the ending, the unknown, the new beginning, by the time you get older, you've had more transitions, and I think important to ask the same kind of questions, you know, do you have more trouble with the unknown ones, the messy middle, the new beginning, the unknown ones, to begin to, if you allow yourself learn about yourself, and I think just have a greater perspective, you know, I think you can really in your 60s and 70s, develop this new identity of being an elder where you just appreciate kind of the ups and downs of life.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 6:26

And on that note, how can we more accurately predict what we actually need to retire?

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 6:35

Now? Are you meaning that money wise, or? Well, General? I

Kosta Yepifantsev: 6:38

mean, I mean, I'd say probably both, okay.

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 6:44

I'm not a financial planner, and I'm not a believer that there's a number. Because what I believe is that, how much you have, really, and how much you need is really based on what kind of lifestyle you want, and maybe what kind of lifestyle you have. Again, there's no right way, I think retirement is money, but it's more than money. And if you think about it, money is it's a tool, it's a resource, sometimes it gets overvalued. And we think you know, that it is just that number. But I think people are learning more and more that there's the, quote, soft part. You know, I like the framework of puzzle, you know, that there are all these pieces in our life. And I like puzzles, because we have to puzzle it out, as well as it's a noun, but they're all these parts of our life, finances, health and wellness, where we live, who's important in our life, closeness and intimacy, spirituality, meaningful relationships, obligations with family, legacy, all of those things are puzzle pieces, and they impact each other. And so I think money and health and wellness are two of the biggest puzzle pieces that are going to impact the choices that you have. Well, and

Kosta Yepifantsev: 8:05

also to that note, I mean, money and health and wellness are prerequisites almost to being able to have a long and happy retirement. Right?

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 8:17

Absolutely. Although the caveat of that is Money doesn't buy happiness. That is very important. And I think that it is amazing that there are many people who don't have an abundance of money, but they have maybe a mindset that's more abundance rather than scarcity. And with that sort of growth mindset, it's amazing that the happiness, the sense of well being that people can have.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 8:50

What do you think is the most overlooked aspect of retirement planning?

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 8:55

I think even doing it, it's part of it. I think, some people sort of think, oh, I don't need to plan it, I can just wing it, you know, it'll just all fall into place. You know, I'm just so happy. I don't have to work. Some people feel that way. I really think it's very important at whatever age you are to start thinking about, you know, what's the course of life that you're hoping for, for yourself? We are living longer, and people don't want to outlive their money. And, you know, it may be that, you know, people need to start thinking ahead of, you know, if these are some of the goals and dreams that I have. What do I need to do to be able to support that? So I really encourage people to think ahead and plan. It's like a financial portfolio. It's not written in stone, but I think it's helpful to have a vision. And if you're part of a relationship, to look at your vision, your partner's vision, see where they align where they're different. And if it's not a partner, it may be siblings, or it may be good friends that maybe whoever's on, you know, sort of on the journey with you to really think about, you know, if I want, hopefully to reach the end of my life without regrets, if they're things I want to accomplish deucey say, then come back to now, whatever your age is, and start thinking about, Well, how am I going to make that happen? And that's where the planning comes in.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 10:26

You know, I'm kind of a numbers guy. So I follow a lot of the statistics in for retirement planning, just retiring in general aging, things like that. And one of the things that I find most fascinating is about 22% of the US population actually saves for retirement. And on average, they only save about two to 300,000. And I mean, that's not a whole lot. If you're wanting to retire for an extended period of time. Granted, there are such things as, obviously Social Security and VA benefits, and sometimes even a pension. I mean, me and Morgan, were just talking about this. Like, where are you going to find a company that pays you a pension nowadays, you know,

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 11:17

that that is in the past.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 11:20

But with that being said, if people are taking the time to plan for their retirement, in your opinion, because I have some opinions on this, but I want to hear your opinions about the greatest risks for derailing retirement plans, and how do we avoid them?

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 11:37

Well, I think sort of what I was alluding to before, I think health. I mean, there's so many unknowns in the world. I mean, there's can be economic downturns, there can be health, I mean, you might have a vision that you are going to work a certain number of years, and that either you or someone close to you, child, spouse, partner, sibling parents, has a health crisis. And that can just kind of put everything into kind of a chaos crisis mode. So I think that can derail. I think another thing that can derail is if and this may seem more subtle, but if your only sense of yourself is your work, and you're not, either by choice or life, circumstances not working. If you can really go downhill, there can be a dark side to not having a sense of the connection, engagement and purpose and meaning. I think too much isolation, you know, can be a derailleur. I think that, you know, if, in fact, somebody's you know, maybe it's a retirement isn't by choice. You know, unfortunately, the statistics say that, you know, people can drink too much use drugs and really go through a real bad rabbit hole. But it doesn't have to be that way. But it can I mean, there are many things that can be derailleurs. And that's where I think planning is helpful. I mean, it's true. You know, I think your percentage is probably right on, about the number of people who plan even those who do have some retirement savings, health costs can come up. There may be, you know, tuition costs for children, was even a recent article about even the tuition that older people are still paying off, you know, or people who go back to school. Yeah, and people who want to go back to school. And when I think the, I think when you go bankrupt, you still have to pay loans and student student loans, you know, and so many people have thought that they've been saving for retirement, but then, you know, many are in what has been referred to as that sandwich generation. So taking care of parents having children and, and maybe even wanting to retrain yourself and things cost money.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 14:04

You know, what's interesting about that is I was having dinner with some friends who are some in the millennial generation, and they are in the Gen X. And I feel like Gen X really got a bad hand. Like, if if you really take it into like, obviously, you know, the millennials and Gen Z's probably can't afford to buy a house, but Gen X is just, they are under a lot of pressure. When you talk about sandwich house, I'm thinking more of like vise grip,

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 14:36

or squeezed vise grip. Yeah. Probably more apt metaphor. It's true. You know, and it used to be that parents wanted the next generation to be better off. And, you know, and that's where it's, you know, falling by the wayside somewhat.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 14:52

But we can I mean, we can, I'm optimistic that things will will will start to improve because we're having more and more Have these types of conversations are starting to occur? And people are like, you know, I don't know if this is actually supposed to be like this, you know? So Alright, moving on. As a retirement coach, do you think that there's a difference between what people think they want, and what they actually want out of retirement?

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 15:21

I think that's true. And again, it may vary. If one has done some reflecting and thinking ahead of time. So you know, I say it's true, but it depends, in a sense. There are many different kinds of retirees. I mean, there are, and many different kinds of visions that people have. I mean, some people really have loved their work and want to keep working and want to keep contributing, maybe not full time. But in some capacity, some people are just totally burned out. And when you think about the concept of retirement, I think it's changing. It used to be, you know, I mean, back when Social Security was developed, you know, people had more industrial jobs. And people were, you know, by the time they were in their 60s, they were burned out. It's very different now, in the 21st century, not only are we living longer, but there's just more desk work, or head head kind of work. I mean, not totally. So what somebody wants from retirement may vary, depending on what your prior experiences where, I mean, I think there's always been this vision that there can, there's more time for leisure. And many people, I think, as I mentioned before, there can be this honeymoon phase. But kind of like, like this expression, there's only so much golf you can play or someone's sailing. And I think COVID put a crimp in the fantasy of traveling. I mean, it's opening up again, but you know, it still exists. But I think, you know, sometimes people don't think ahead and realize what it's going to feel like not to have a paycheck, if you're not getting a paycheck, or not to have that identity if it's been so much of your identity. So, retirement, sometimes can feel structureless until you realize it's okay to have and you need actually some structure in your life, you know, exercising, taking care of yourself. I always like the statistic that by the time you're 65, it's 30% genetics, which is not insignificant if you've got some genetic components. But 70% are things you can have some control over lifestyle choices, taking care of your body and your brain, spirituality, meaningful relationships. So if you think just doing nothing, if that's the vision you have of retirement, you probably will end up being unhappy. I do think that, again, there are different stages of retirement. But if, you know, some people actually have a good picture of retirement, and they combine in beautiful ways, some voluntary, maybe a little bit of working time with family time with friends, I'm for traveling time for leisure, I mean, some people truly do create, you know, what they were envisioning. But some don't.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 18:30

So when I was listening to your TEDx, one of the things that you mentioned in there is that our perception of middle age is actually shifted, and it's more, or between the ages of 55 and 75. So, I want to, I want to, I want you to touch on that and kind of explain it. But also, I'm curious, you know, I'm sure you've done some research and have seen the statistics on this, but how long do you think people will be living in the next like, 20 to 30 years, will we be living into like, 125 or 150? I mean, I hope we are, you know, but just curious.

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 19:13

Well, there are a few questions in there. So no, but in terms of lifespan, a lot of people now are talking about healthspan just lifespan. So you know, I truly myself am a believer that it's it's not just the number of years, but I really I mean, I'd like to live a good long time. But I I also have a sense of what for me quality of life is so that just adding, you know, a little years to my belt, if it doesn't feel like a quality of life. I'm not so sure I want that. Just sticks are saying that kids born now pretend you know have a 5050 chance to live into their hundreds. I don't know that it's going to get to, you know, way over 100 It could be But again, it's hard to know. But I do think that with the extension of lifespan now and hopefully healthspan, which is being able to feel and be kind of in the middle age, not old, old and you know, more unable to do things, you know that that's maybe more at the final final end. But during, you know, it is interesting to think about this extended middle age, you know, it used to be 40 to 60. And 60 was old now, it's, you know, as you say, 50 to 55 to 75. It's like a second adulthood, or some people actually even call it middle essence now, that, you know, Adolescence is only was a term coined maybe 100 or 100 plus years ago, because there was an awareness that there was a time between being a child and being an adult. And issues about who am i Where do I want to live? What do I want to do? Parallels if you think about it. So now we have this extended middle age, you know, and people are realizing, first of all, 62, or 65, might be too young to retire. Because if we're living longer, and want to have some lifestyle choices, we may need to work longer if we're able to and interpret. That's where we can. And so, you know, thinking about the parallels to adolescence is we're dealing with our identity we're dealing with where do I want to live? Which is your area to? You know, who do I want to be connected to? Parallel things, but hopefully, at this middle essence stage, the second adulthood, we have an added perspective and wisdom of just having weathered a lot of the ups and downs of life. But but there is this transition. And I think I really find it so helpful and freeing to think about this extended middle age, it really is a time to keep growing and learning and evolving. And it doesn't have it's not the old paradigm of aging, which is it's all downhill after 60. It will be if you want it to be and let it be. But it really doesn't have to be there's many, many choices that are out there.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 22:22

Let's say somebody doesn't plan for retirement, or just doesn't have a plan in general. What's your advice to the children of parents that have no retirement plan?

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 22:35

Another good and hard question. You know, it's interesting, sometimes adult children don't want to bring up things to parents, and sometimes parents don't want to bring up things to young children, younger, adult children, it is important to have a conversation. I mean, I I'm a believer that conversations and they can be very difficult ones. But it's important to talk about so you know, a son or a daughter can maybe sit down and not you aren't doing that's blaming shaming you statements, you know, you should be you're not. But to say I'm worried about you, you know, I'm worried that, as far as I know, I don't think you've been thinking about this at all. And I worry, you know, are you going to be able to keep working in the way that you are now or what happens if their health issues, I'd like us to sit down and talk about it. So if you can use an if statement. And you know, if you're in a situation where you're not used to talking together, and you're able to have it be just the start, let it be a short conversation to start with, but then know that you can come back to it. But I really do think they're hard conversations to have. But I think whether you're the adult trying to talk to, or the parent trying to talk to your adult children or adult children T talking to your parents try to think about using I statements avoid you don't you should you never those, even if it's your heart is not intended that way. It's blaming and shaming and people get defensive. But it's really important conversations, you know, I'm worried about you and I don't think you have had enough money saved. Can we just figure out, you know, what do you have in mind? What have you taken care of What haven't you taken care of, and this can be tied in also to end of life issues and wishes, you know, if the adult children are going to be you know, healthcare proxies or power of attorney, it's so important to have these conversations and people often put it off it's tied into your question about why people don't plan sometimes people don't want to plan because if you think ahead then you have to think about up. I'm not gonna live forever, and people with that.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 24:53

Yeah, and I mean, literally when when you say they want to avoid it, or they'd like to avoid it like I have heard from so Many people when I say why are you not having a more thoughtful conversation with your parents about preparing for long term care or just buying long term care insurance? It's because we're wired in this way, that we know that death is an inevitability, right? But we don't think about it. Because when you accept that component, at least, this is what this is what the good the greater society teaches you. And once you accept that component, then you're essentially going against your instincts. And you're, you know, you're not going to live every single day to the fullest, but I believe that it's the opposite.

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 25:45

I agree with you. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I mean, I honestly believe that knowing that death exists, and none of us are going to live forever makes life more precious. also believe that it's an act of love to sit down with parents and adult children or whomever I mean, not everybody has children, and but whoever is important in your life to sit down and talk about these things. It's an act of love. Because if you don't, then, you know, if something happens unexpectedly, and you know, you died, suddenly, I mean, we see it happen all the time, with natural disasters, too, or with terrorist attacks, or any many different ways. At the time of loss and crisis. It's hard enough. And so if the survivors are left not knowing what you would like, it's just it compounds it. So I view it as an act of love. And just on a personal example, like, what was about 40 years ago, now, when my father was dying, he, you know, he used to be a pretty controlling person, and I didn't like that, but I liked that he was controlling in this way. And he, my brother, and I flew out to California where they lived. And he knew he was sick, and he knew he was dying. And we didn't know when it was going to be, but he said, We need to talk. And my brother said, Well, no, I don't think we need to talk. And I said, Yes, we do. And it was so helpful. And it really helped me appreciate that he gave us the information about what the accounts were, where keys were, I got my name on the checking account, not to have it and but it was or, you know, and knowing that I wasn't going to do it unless I had to talked about what he wanted, end of life. My mother talked about what she wanted, you know, I was her health care proxy, my brother was his, it was such a relief, to have that information. So when he did die, you know, it still took a while to deal with all the stuff we had to deal with. But we knew we knew the passwords. I mean, that's another thing. We have a digital life as well as a real life. And it's a, it's an act of love to survivors, that at the time when you need to take over, that you know how to do it. And, you know, return to so I you know, I speak from personal experience, and I, you know, work with my clients on that, too. So,

Kosta Yepifantsev: 28:21

before we wrap up, I want to talk about everyone's favorite topic, inflation. How does inflation impact retirement? And how much can inflation change someone's retirement plans?

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 28:37

You know, I would, I do know that everybody is focused on inflation. I think inflation is part of it. But not the whole thing. I mean, I think the reality is, things cost money, and that sometimes they cost more money, other times, maybe less money. I think the issue from my perspective is we're living longer, and we really don't want to outlive our money. So I think if right now, we're there's some inflation that needs to inform in some way. You know, your notions about when to retire, you know, a people I think it's, you know, the idea of 62 or 65. You know, it really was when the lifespan was much shorter. I think it is really helpful, whether it be inflation or knowing there's the unknown of healthcare needs or whatever else might happen in the economy. Many people it is important to rethink that the 60 to 65 is not such a magical age. And if you really want to have you know, options for your lifestyle choices, then part of it may be needing to recognize that you need to work longer doesn't necessarily mean working longer, full time. But it may be that part of your retirement vision is you know, let's not work out as much but let's still bring some money in so that, you know you're adding to your nest egg.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 30:06

What is the more appropriate age to retire if it's not 62 and 65. And I know you're not saying that it's a just a specific number, but like if you were a policymaker, and you had to put a number on when people should retire, and bring it back to when they first created the law in 1937, where Social Security was, you know, eligible at age X, what age is more appropriate now?

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 30:38

I think more and more people are working into their 70s. But, but part of it depends on what the kind of work is. I mean, some people truly reach their prime in their 70s. And I mean, I'm in my late 70s, I still work and love it, my husband actually just turned 91, he still works part time. And so there's no right, but but he is doing it because he loves doing it. Right. And, you know, not everybody loves their work. But if you can, you know, if you're so lucky to have a profession that, that you do love, or, I mean, the beauty of getting older is it's not too late to learn something new. And you might want to morph some of the skills you have into something else and maybe work in a different way. But I think I think more I'm seeing more and more people work into their 70s. I mean, I think early 60s is way too early. But again, if people have some physical issues, or it's, it's a really difficult job in terms of stamina, and their, you know, health issues and stuff like that, you know, maybe you do need to work later. But think about how you might be able to repurpose some of the skills you have. If you still need to earn some additional money. So you have more choices.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 32:05

We always like to end the show with a call to action. For anyone that feels behind or like they didn't start preparing early enough. What can we all do today to start planning for a better retirement.

Dorian Mintzer, Ph.D.: 32:20

So I always say it's never too late. And it's never too early. It's harder when it's later. But I think it's not too late. So I think I'm a believer, no matter how much or how little money you have to talk with a financial planner, preferably one that has what's called a holistic view, which is they're they're viewing money as a tool, and helping you really think about what your lifestyle options are and what you want. But I think that would be one way to start. I think that there's a lot of resources out there. I actually have a list but it's okay to say I have a monthly free webinar series on the fourth Tuesday of each month. Free open to public and professionals called revolutionize your retirement interview with experts series to help you create a fulfilling second half of life. I encourage you it's free signups always the week before. And it's every month except December. I'm in my 11th year of it. And to celebrate the 10th year starting last year earlier, interviews are now released his podcasts that you also can have access to for free. So there's a lot that I have out there. There are other organizations out there. So I think it's helpful to think about it's not too late, you know, you can talk with a financial planner, their retirement coaches around, talk with friends, you know, often people don't think they should talk about retirement next stage of life, I really encourage you to realize you're not alone. And there's a lot of help and support available to you. So that would be kind of little action steps.

Caroline Moore: 34:03

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Now or Never Long-Term Care Strategy with Kosta Yepifantsev.If you enjoyed listening and you wanna hear more make sure you subscribe on Apple podcast Spotify or wherever you find your Podcasts,leave us a review or better yet share this episode with a friend. Today’s episode was written and produced by Morgan Franklin. Want to find out more about Kosta? Visit us at kostayepifantsev.com