How to Create a Positive Aging Community with Steve Gurney

Join Kosta and his guest: Steve Gurney, Founder and CEO of Positive Aging Community,  Author, and Senior Living Advocate of over 30 years.

In this episode: What is Positive Aging Community? How does it help seniors and our communities overall? As an expert in senior living, what do you believe is the biggest misconception about this experience? What’s the hardest part of getting older from a social and communal perspective? What can we do to ease these hardships?
  
Find out more about Steve Gurney and Positive Aging Community:
https://www.retirementlivingsourcebook.com/

Find out more about Kosta Yepifantsev:
https://kostayepifantsev.com/

Transcript

Steve Gurney: 0:05

But I tell you one thing that's pushing us in this direction is the huge amount of people that are out there that can define themselves as solo agers. This is we do a weekly discussion in my community on a variety of topics. Our most popular topic is so what are we reaching? There are so many people that are out there who either have outlived their family, they they have been divorced, they may be where they were, where they were, their former movie all over the world and are taking full responsibility for what their their steps are in their care. And for the soldiers building that personal village is even more important.

Caroline Moore: 0:55

Welcome to Now or Never Long-Term Care Strategy making. themselves. with Kosta Yepifantsev a podcast for all those seeking answers and solutions in the long term care space. This podcast is designed to create resources, start conversations and bring awareness to the industry that will inevitably impact all Americans. Here's your host Kosta Yepifantsev.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 1:17

Hey, y'all, it's Kosta. Today, I'm here with my guest, Steve Gurney, founder and CEO of positive aging community, author, and Senior Living advocate of over 30 years. Now, before we get into the episode, I want to talk about your own personal journey with care. Like so many of us, you've come into this industry through necessity, will you tell us a bit more about how your family's experience with caregiving inspired your career?

Steve Gurney: 1:46

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. My journey began when I was in college, my grandfather needed care, he had a stroke, he was paralyzed, needed to go to a nursing home, I saw firsthand what my family had to go through to make that challenging decision. And it kind of surprised me that there wasn't a guidebook that would help people through that difficult journey. And so fast forward, I graduated from college, didn't have the greatest job in the world. And I decided, hey, look, I'm gonna put together a guide. And it'll be a great something that shows that I'm a self starter on my resume, maybe get me into a fancy grad school. And I started what is called now the positive aging Sourcebook back then it was called the Guide to Retirement Living. And much to my surprise, folks really embraced it. Because there really wasn't a comprehensive listing, you were basically, you would be discharged from the hospital, and the social worker would tell you, here's where you're gonna go versus being able to see all the different options. So I've been doing that for about 33 years, I am based here in the DC, Washington, DC, metro area. But the print publication covers the entire Mid Atlantic from Philadelphia to Northern Virginia. But our articles and all the things that we do are not location specific. I did have an interesting path where I ended up selling the business to the Washington Post, and I ran it under their ownership for over 20 years. And about 14 years ago, I had an opportunity to buy the the company back, and I'm running it on my own again.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 3:41

Can I Can I ask what was it like the feedback that you got, especially early on when you released your book? What was the feedback like did it obviously was received very well. But I'm curious to hear what people had to say about it. Well,

Steve Gurney: 3:58

the number one, a lot of professionals in the field were like, I can't believe I didn't come. Because especially like the marketing people, they had these they had lists, they were compiling of all the options so that they wouldn't know where the other communities were their competitors for business analysis, but no one had really thought to sort of create a consumer based directory. What am I things was being what I and it may have been a little bit. So people embraced it. But I was really young. I was in my early 20s. And I didn't have industry knowledge. I was just learning as I was going along. And one interesting thing is now nationwide, the term assisted living was, you know, pretty common. Use that pretty common. Back then. 33 years ago, in Maryland, DC and Virginia. They were called on a board and care homes and you know, retirement homes and things like this, and actually, like I have one of the marketing things for sunrise assisted living, which is their senior living, which is one of the largest companies is out there. At the time. They only had two locations, and they were calling them sunrise retirement homes. So but what was interesting is I was looking at all of this, and I had to create a category with a label. And I decided to create that section. As like, you know, this assisted living term that's being thrown out there a little bit is a lot easier to understand. And so I just threw a dart at the dartboard and I'm glad I threw it at the lemming at the right, Steve, did you coined the term assisted living? Oh, no, not at all.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 5:54

Maybe popularized using it, you made it more mainstream?

Steve Gurney: 5:57

I think, I think one thing, I think, at least in the markets that i, where i was doing this book, is because we were kind of lumping everybody under this umbrella. It really helped. Because at the time, Virginia and Maryland, there was sort of a legal name that they were supposed to be using. And by me sort of not worrying about the geographic boundaries, they can still use any name. And we describe the different categories in our article. So anyways, interesting stuff. It's been a really fun journey. And let's

Kosta Yepifantsev: 6:40

talk about that fun journey. Because your experience as a resident, and a senior living community at 45, is rather astonishing. You knew you wanted to be an expert in senior living, and what better way to become an expert than to learn firsthand, right? You. You live temporarily in five different senior communities. What was that like? And what did you learn?

Steve Gurney: 7:11

It was probably one of the most awesome decisions and eye opening experiences in my career. And let me kind of back up a little bit. So remember, I started this at age 20. And I definitely was a pioneer in sort of categorizing and organizing all of these complex eldercare options. I had also visited over 500 communities, I interviewed hundreds of people on their transition from their home into a community. And I was regarded as this senior housing expert, you know, so if, if some media was doing an article, they call, Hey, I heard you're a senior housing expert, and to set the other end. And at some point, in my so, at 43, I was over 20 years experience in this field, regarded as the senior housing expert. And I was at UC and, and I was in a client's, at a community where they were asking me my opinion on something. And I said, you know, I started to answer him. And I said, But you know, the best way for me to answer that would be to just move in here and stay for a bit. And I've never done that. And that would give me a better perspective. And they looked at me kind of funny. They're like, really? And I said, Yeah, you know, it's sort of like, How can I be an expert? It's kind of like, saying that I work at a restaurant, but I don't eat the food there. Right. And so they called me a couple of weeks later, I moved in. The first one was an assisted living community that was in the suburbs. Okay, I, I was not pretending to be anybody other than my healthy 43 year old, okay. I actually had a classmate that did this in a nursing home where he was in a wheelchair and taking medications. And what I wanted to do is say, convenes homes be a home to a person, not an older person or a person with a disability. And I have to tell you, these homes and I've done it five times in a very different communities. These are the best neighborhoods I've ever spent time in, okay. And the main reason why is the, the the caring that the neighbor, so, the blind spot in in 33 years, what I didn't see is how much the other residents care for each other. So especially if you're in a big community, it's not like There's an RN, that's going to be there at every quarter when you need help picking something up off the floor. It's the fellow residents, and the sense of camaraderie. And whenever I would go back home to my family in the suburbs, after one of these adventures, I really felt lonely because being part of that community in close proximity to people and knowing that people care about you, was a really good feeling.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 10:29

And a lot of times, when we talk to people, that's always sort of the tenant that comes out is you have to have a network of people that are supporting you, and that you can also support them in the journey. And especially if you have that network, then you can age in a much more. And I don't want to say safer, it's just you don't you don't fall into a lot of the into the pitfalls that a lot of people who are aging do, because you have a network of support.

Steve Gurney: 11:00

I'm really, you're hitting on one of my hot buttons. And I have lately, we've been calling this building your personal village. So rpm has been doing a study since the beginning of time that says that, you know, X amount of people want to age in place. Yeah, they want to age in place, you know, and, and, and I get it, okay. We are like the memories of our home and the sense of independence, I think the most important thing about aging in place is that you're living in, in a neighborhood that is not segregated. So senior community, senior living communities are the last legal segregated housing that we have, you can build something that says young people can't live here. And that's, that's one of the reasons why folks want to stay in their home and not age in place, because they don't want to move to an age segregated housing option, no matter how great it sounds, okay. Now, the secret to aging in place is not hiring 100 Different companies to help you, you might need to hire 100 Different companies to make that happen. But it's building that personal village and having conversations with that personal village, on, you know, what are my dreams? What are my ideas? What are the things that I like to do? And how can I give you support? Talking about my village? And how can you help me if I need help. And if people would invest more time and doing that, the experience of aging in place would be better. But also what would be better is when they do decide to make the move, they can bring that personal village over with them. And now their personal village becomes part of the senior living community as well. And I feel like we're moving in this direction. But there's still a lot that we could do. But I tell you one thing that's pushing us in this direction, is the huge amount of people that are out there that can define themselves as solo agers. This is we do a weekly discussion in my community, on a variety of topics. Our most popular topic is solar, we reaching, there are so many people that are out there who either have outlived their family, they may have been divorced, they may be a widow or whatever, or their favorite movie all over the world. And they are taking full responsibility for what their their steps are in their care. And for the solar wagers building, that personal village is even more important.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 13:58

What are some other components of a positive aging community? And how does it help seniors and our communities overall?

Steve Gurney: 14:06

I think the hardest thing is communication. It's having discussions with your loved ones about these choices. It's it's being involved. That is what I see is the hardest thing for people to do. And right. Let's let's talk about one of the hardest things that we can talk about talking about that. Yeah, you know, and, and, and that's one thing that I found when I made these moves into the senior communities that the residents of these communities have, it's almost more of a beautiful dialogue about end of life. That I think for younger generations is a little bit harder to talk about and be but because they're there, you know, just by default out there in the community where they're seeing their their friends and their loved ones pass away at probably a higher rate than those of us who were younger, it becomes a more normal conversation. And when it becomes a more normal conversation, you can now share with your loved ones and those people around you what your wishes are. And in that, that's, that's one element there. Another element that I would bring up, and as you can tell,

Kosta Yepifantsev: 15:29

this is fascinating.

Steve Gurney: 15:30

Yeah, the use of technology, I think that we have, we have a huge problem in terms of getting enough people to care for elders that need assistance, okay, with the shifts and then bounces in supply and the demographics. And then just people that want to do that job and can do that job well and are committed to it. And technology like Alexa and Google Home. Just that my watch here is tracking a lot of my health care status without me knowing it, instead of having the fallen and I couldn't get up devices around our neck, we can now have sensors that are monitoring, if I fall or if something happens, and, and I don't even need to think about it. These are some exciting developments that can save people money by utilizing technology, meaning they don't need as much hate paid care, personal care that they need. Yeah. But it can also communicate with our loved ones and our healthcare providers a little bit better. Some exciting things out there. When when people asked me to is a lot of times people are asking me, they'll say, Hey, what is the best technology out there for older adults. And I don't think there's anything best because we're all unique. But one of the elements of what are the elements that I like, is don't go grandparent, and what gogo grandparent is, is, if you're not skilled at using one of these things, it can be very difficult to get an Uber or Lyft ride, go go grandparent and enable somebody with a rotary dial phone to get an Uber or Lyft. And they're using technology, so that we don't need to necessarily use technology, similar to the way that the Amazon Alexa works. I don't need to master a bunch of apps, I just, you know,

Kosta Yepifantsev: 17:43

say Alexa, I'm sure it probably popped up.

Steve Gurney: 17:48

The good thing is, well, I got Google Home in this room. So that's good.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 17:54

It makes a lot of sense. And you know, I'm gonna thread this needle and kind of bring it all full circle. So, aging in place, as even though everybody wants to do it, it does have a lot of unfortunate social isolations. And society, you know, has always, recently, especially in the last, like 30 years has has somewhat been trending in that direction, you know, people kind of don't mind that they're by themselves, right? And even though we're always talking about the necessity for community, so it reinforces aging in place, in my opinion, reinforces this social isolation. And if you don't build a circle of support, or as you describe kind of the, the network, right, then you will, you will fall into that trap. And I think that at some point, you can get so far down the rabbit hole of being by yourself that it's hard to get out of it. And I love I love the fact that they're that they're creating these retirement communities. You know, I grew up in Atlanta. And every time I go to visit my parents, there are 50 plus communities popping up everywhere. And I'll tell you, what's interesting about the technological component is, I think, even more so than the Aging in Place aspect. I believe that if people aren't accessing these retirement communities and compounding technology and aging in place, I think it's going to it's going to exacerbate the social isolation because people typically have most of their interaction with human caregivers, statistically, and so the fact that people are coming around to the idea that living in a community that's 50 plots, that's a senior community, and they are embracing it is going to not just solve some of our significant issues when it comes to care, specifically the supply and demand issues. But I think it's Going to give, it's going to finally de stigmatize what these communities are meant to do. And it's and I think it'll help people in the long run live longer and happier lives. Not to sound cliche, but it's true.

Steve Gurney: 20:14

Oh, no. And, and one little tip that's worked with some of the members of our communities is that there's a lot of folks that are out there, and they'll, they'll get our guide, or they'll come into a discussion and they're like, Okay, I've toured all these places, I, and, no, I'm not ready for any of them yet, but I do want a more carefree lifestyle. And one solution that has worked really well, is what I've sort of coined the term smart lifestyle community. These are generally apartments and I said, apartments, because an apartment is something that you can rent and see how it works, okay, versus a condo, it's a transaction, and you're stuck with the condo fees, and this that the other. But I always recommend folks is utilize the website Walkscore. Use the AARP livability index, look into apartments. And the most important thing to be close to is the grocery store, you don't need to be close to hospitals, because hopefully, you're not going to have to go to a hospital, but a grocery store in something and the beauty is here in the DC metro market. And I know a lot of larger markets, we're getting these sort of urban suburban cities. And a lot of times, they're putting a Harris Teeter or grocery store, on the bottom level of an apartment building, what a great place to live. By by renting, you can experiment with downsizing, see if you like that lifestyle. And a lot of times, there's a lot of empty nesters in these urban suburban apartment buildings. And then you know, if you if you like it great if you don't move back to your home, if you feel like you need more care in the health care safety net, then maybe you can move to a life plan community from there. But that's one tip to certainly the stigma really bothers you. That's one way to get around it.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 22:20

Good point. Positive aging community isn't just a company name for you. It's a philosophy. Would you mind sharing how this philosophy impacts the approach of your organization? And how it could impact our listeners?

Steve Gurney: 22:36

Yeah, wow, great question. And I. So one of the things that the the term positive aging, and here, again, I didn't sort of coined this term or anything like that, but one term that I did coin was pro aging. And you can get to a website at pro aging.com. And but I coined the term pro aging for professionals in the field of aging. But But I then realized it's like, wow, this also has another point to it, which is positive aging, and this I like that term pro aging, positive aging, because in general, in our culture, ageism and the stigma of growing old, and the the things that are the beautiful wrinkles and gray hair that we develop, we don't work with them that way. And and so if I do have a philosophy, it's to look at this chapter of our lives as not one of decline in depression. But what if opportunity and exploration and wisdom and the fact that you don't have maybe some of those biases that you had when you were younger? The it's it's not easy though, it because if you've got healthcare changes, if you have loss in grief, reinventing yourself and finding purpose in life can be challenging, but one of the benefits of being an elder is is that you don't you can't live on this planet for 40 5060 years without solving a lot of problems and overcoming a lot of challenges. And it's just you know, looking creatively and positively sorry about that. And, and really embracing this, this chapter in our lives.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 24:54

As an expert in senior living. What do you believe is the biggest misconception about This experience,

Steve Gurney: 25:01

that it's any different than any sort of chapter in our lives that we have gone through before. So, I mean, and that's one of the things, one of the things, when I'm talking to people about this transition, nobody wants to move to a senior community. Now, when they move there, I've interviewed hundreds of people that want it. And so when I work with families and individuals, I say, look, you're not looking at an old folks home, let's pretend that you're going to find the next college you're going to. And let's sort of compare these two things. A college kid walking onto a campus, he's not thinking about this being decline, he's thinking about this as being an opportunity, positive experience. And that's what this chapter can be to. Also a college kid, when he walks on that campus, he doesn't care about the square footage of his dorm room, it's the other students on the campus, right. And that's what we should be doing too is that the new people, I'm going to meet the new experiences, and it would be the case of an elder going to a community or aging in place and getting out there and joining a new club. They have life experience that they can really share. Your typical 18 year old doesn't have any life experience, he or she is trying to gain that. Right, your typical senior living community is just you could staff a small college with the residents that are that are in any of these communities.

Kosta Yepifantsev: 26:39

I mean, why do you think that we have experience experience, the stigma that we're describing? And also secondary to that? Is it improving? Meaning are people starting to shed that stigma?

Steve Gurney: 26:52

It is improving, I think one of the reasons that we have the stigma is that, let's say that your pursuits in life are primary, primarily athletic. And as you grow older, it has nothing to do with you growing older, by the way, I mean, there's people who get injured, and and blow out a knee when they're in their 20s. But as we grow older, many of us it's like, oh, I can't swing golf club, like I used to swing the tennis racket, ride my bike, what have you. And so it can oftentimes be looked at is Oh, because I'm growing older, I have to give up these things. Okay, now, that, again, this happens at every stage in our life. So what are some things that we can do to make this better? One of the things I like to spotlight is how it's perfectly acceptable to go to a birthday party for somebody over a certain age, and give them this horrible birthday card with all this black humor, you know, with the Grim Reaper, or them in a rocking chair, that their life is over and this that the other, and that's acceptable. In fact, you hand that card to somebody and they'll laugh right along with you. And I think Little things like that, if we start moving the needle, to, if you get a card like that, use it as a opportunity to have a dialogue, okay, about what growing older can be and what it should be. But number two, just stop giving cards like that, you know, there's so many positive cards that are out there, again, going back to the college age kid, look at the cards for a high school graduation, and then look at the cards for retirement. And this one over here is for black humor. There's no black humor. This is, you know, a new chapter in life, this is exactly the same, they should be exactly the same. In fact, I tell people, when you go to a retirement party, give them a graduation card, because retirement is is the most exciting graduation in our life. We're just moving to another chapter. I know I've been

Kosta Yepifantsev: 29:11

That was perfect. I think essentially what you're saying and this is something that I that I'm always fascinated with is how we've socially engineered our society to, to think in the capacity that you're describing. And we talked to a lot of people about ageism, and I'll be honest, I haven't really taken it to heart Intel, we started the show and started to really understand the impacts that it has within the senior community. And then you have the personal experiences like for example, my in laws are well into their late 70s. I have some people that I work with who are you know, 95 105 and I talked to my in laws and they seem somewhat concerned with their age, whereas the people who are in their 95 and 105 ages they're talking about hey, You know, next year, I'm going to move into a lot to a bigger place, or I'm going to be closer to not the senior citizen center, I'm going to be close, I'm going to be closer to, you know, the, the target that's down the road, because I love going there. And they're nine. I mean, one of the guy that comes to mind, he's 102 years old, you know, and so, and I can see the differences and one listens to the directions that, you know, society gives them about how they should feel that will at this age, and how they should, you know, you can't run anymore. So you might as well just pack it all in, don't go to the gym, you know, don't use the elliptical, don't you don't go swimming, and do water aerobics, just go and pack it in, you're done. You know, you don't get hurt, you know, God forbid that you fall and hurt yourself. This other guy's like, um, do whatever I want, you know, I'm gonna just keep going like I've been alive long enough. So I can listen to my body. So I totally understand what you're saying. Taking a look back, you founded Retirement Living Sourcebook in 1990, over the past 30 years working in senior living, what's changed the most?

Steve Gurney: 31:15

I think there's more choices out there. That back 30 years ago, the category of assisted living really didn't exist. And that's one of the reasons why a lot of us have these horrible stigmas of nursing homes, because basically, the people that are now in assisted living, were there in the skilled nursing center. And that that was tough, you know, it's tough to see mom and dad who just need help with one or two activities of daily living with somebody who is totally bedridden. And so the the amount of choices that are out there is increased. One of the challenges that we face is addressing the needs of what they are referring to as the Forgotten middle. It's this group, and there's more choices coming out there. But it's this group, you know, if you're impoverished, we've got Medicaid, we got the PACE program, we got things like that, if you are wealthy, you've got plenty of opportunities that are out there. But it's this group in the middle that I've always referred to as the cop between the cracks and ties, the middle takes more creativity there. And we need, we need more resources for that group. There are more resources than there were 30 years ago. But there's also more people needing this stuff. Than then there's there. And it seems like as you're talking about, like, you know, Atlanta, whatever in this market, too, is that there's a lot of new communities being built, but they're primarily being built for folks with assets. And

Kosta Yepifantsev: 32:58

so I mean, what do you suggest is some of the solutions that we can take

Steve Gurney: 33:03

the early solution, and I mean, is what we were talking about is building your personal village. Because if you can cultivate a personal village, and it doesn't necessarily need to be friends and family, it can be like in in some markets, there's Shepherd centers where there's volunteers that help out, it could be your church group, it could be, but if you can cultivate a village of unpaid support, then it stretches your dollar longer. So somebody who might need homecare for five days a week with them could utilize technology and their network to provide care for three of those five days. Now, they're only paying for a caregiver for two days. And that could that could stretch your money for many years, you know, so that's the only solution I can come up with, you know, you can't build communities fast enough. I mean, and what are you building 100? Apartment? affordable community? I mean, you probably need 500 Well,

Kosta Yepifantsev: 34:16

you know, and I think people need to really take into consideration what what the word affordable actually means when it comes to people that are retiring. You know, I think if you look at the statistics, 60% of Americans that are retiring are retiring with just basic social security. So there's in the other, you know, there's a batter, that 30% that are retiring with about an average of $250,000 in savings and then obviously you have the 10% Those 60% are drawing around 1200 to $1,800, you know, a month that's not a lot of money. And you know, when you're a builder and you're looking to extrapolate as much bang for your buck, so to speak, you know, I think that it's going to be necessary, especially as we progress into more of an aging population for the federal government to try and consider subsidizing some of these projects. Because, you know, not just having the conversation today, which has been exhilarating, and also has made me really consider how important these retirement communities are. But we need to accelerate that. I think you and I are both on the same page, when we say like, we don't have enough housing, and we need more, we need it to be affordable. So and we need it to be for the 50 Plus, so that all those people that are millennials and Gen Z, who are complaining about not being able to buy a house have access to buying a house, you know, so killing, killing two birds with one stone, so to speak, you know, I want to talk about your experience, what's the hardest part of getting older from a social and communal perspective? And what can we do to ease these hardships?

Steve Gurney: 36:00

You know, I know I sound like a broken record. No, no, please. Yeah. But communicating with your loved ones around you in advance, it solves so many problems and break. So it's, I know, it's hard. But most of the calls that I get on a weekly basis are a loved one who is flying into town, because mom foul, and they don't know anything about Brian, they don't know what she wanted this, that the other, and then they might look at the situation, you know, coming in for the weekend. And it's like, Mom, we gotta get you to assisted living. No way, I'm not going to one of those places. And it had they had some conversations, some players in advance, and that doesn't need to be this, this heart, you know, eight hour conference call, it's just having conversations. And a lot of times, the best way to have a conversation is saying, if there's somebody in your life, that may or may have dementia, or cancer or a mobility issue, it's sort of like, hey, what would you want us to do? Or what would you want to do? If that if you were in the situation? Now, if somebody says, and they will say this, oh, I'm healthy, that's not going to happen to me, you know, it's sort of like, look, this happens to people that run marathons. And I'm just asking you, let's just have a little conversation here. Because I've been thinking about this, like, the only thing is not when you're talking to a parent, it's not sort of putting it in, sort of, like, the and this is another problem is is is that if you start talking to an elder as though they're like somebody different than you talk about it as yourself, you can be in your 30s and 40s. And think about what would happen if I developed dementia? Where do I want to be cared for in my home? Or somewhere else? So

Kosta Yepifantsev: 38:15

and even understanding the process of like, who is the who's the PCP, you know, or who is your Medicare with, you know, and especially, you know, you probably know this with with dealing, being in this industry for so long. There, the majority of Americans don't understand how Medicare works. You know, they don't understand what Medicare Advantage is they don't understand what a supplemental plan is. They don't understand how the how the structure of the system works. And so I think just at least just asking, like, hey, you know, what's your doctor's name? Or, you know, what insurance? Do you have simple questions like that, so that at least you have your very, very, you're at least somewhat prepared in the very most minut amount, but you're at least prepared to, to help when, when the time comes. So we always like to end the show with a call to action. Positive aging community offers a wealth of resources on senior living, how can we use digital tools and online communities to create more positive outcomes for people of all ages?

Steve Gurney: 39:20

I would say, folks, visit our website, pro imaging.com. And we have these weekly discussions on every topic under the sun. ageism solver with aging, choosing and paying for a senior community aging in place, and you're not being sold to this is basically just open discussions. You can ask questions, and and I am just the pandemic brought this on to our business and I'm thrilled because for me, it's like a support group that I get to wake up to and look for or to every day that we have one of these discussions and I just say to your listeners, you know, feel free to join us. Because I feel like you know, whether it be jumping in on a positive aging community discussions, or joining a support group, or just inviting your friends over and there's this concept death over dinner, check out that book where you can host a dinner party and the conversation is about that. There's so many creative ways that you can build your personal village or connect to another community like ours, to just help me this chapter, the most wonderful and set an example for the generations that follow that man, this is something to look forward to an adventure as every day that we're walking this planet should be.

Caroline Moore: 40:49

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Now or Never Long-Term Care Strategy with Kosta Yepifantsev.If you enjoyed listening and you wanna hear more make sure you subscribe on Apple podcast Spotify or wherever you find your Podcasts,leave us a review or better yet share this episode with a friend. Now or Never Long-Term Care Strategy is a Kosta Yepifantsev production.Today’s episode was written and produced by Morgan Franklin. Want to find out more about Kosta? Visit us at kostayepifantsev.com