Now or Never: Long-Term Care Strategy with Kosta Yepifantsev

How You'll Pay for Long-Term Care with Bill Comfort

September 13, 2022 Kosta Yepifantsev Season 1 Episode 1
Now or Never: Long-Term Care Strategy with Kosta Yepifantsev
How You'll Pay for Long-Term Care with Bill Comfort
Show Notes Transcript

Join Kosta and his guest: Bill Comfort, Long-Term Care Specialist, Owner of Comfort Long-Term Care, Founder and Chief Author of the Long-Term Care Claims Professional designation and training program, and Host of Aging America Radio.

Featured everywhere from Fox News, The Wall Street Journal and Smart Money, for the past 30 years Bill has dedicated his work to bringing awareness and clarity to the issues of long-term care and more importantly how to prepare.

In this episode: how the average American will pay for long-term care, what you should prepare/save, when to reduce expenses/costs, and what age range is optimal to start creating a strategy for long-term care.

Find out more about Bill Comfort and Comfort Long-Term Care:
https://www.comfortltc.com/

Watch this episode on YouTube:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-x9lTPMHYyM

Find out more about Kosta Yepifantsev:
http://kostayepifantsev.com/

Bill Comfort:

Who wants to think about this subject when you're healthy and independent and feeling good, right? Nobody does. In fact, all of us hope we never need care. Right? Or if we do, it's for a very short period of time at the very end of life. But the reality is, many of us, especially as we're successful living a long time into our 80s, and 90s, which is common today and what we're all planning for, you know, with our retirement years, it's reasonable to expect we could need care for a few years along the way, but unfortunately, a lot of people don't think about it till their health changes, or they get a diagnosis of something, and I get the call. And I said, unfortunately, you know, that's a condition or circumstance that's just not insurable.

Caroline Moore:

Welcome to now our never Long-Term Care Strategy with Kosta Yepifantsev, a podcast for all those seeking answers and solutions in the long term care space. This podcast is designed to create resources, start conversations and bring awareness to the industry that will inevitably impact all Americans. Here's your host, Kosta Yepifantsev:

Kosta Yepifantsev:

Hey, y'all, this is Kosta. And today I'm here with my guest, Bill, comfort, long term care specialist, owner of comfort Long Term Care, founder and chief author of the long term care claims professional designation and training program. And finally, host of aging America, radio featured everywhere from Fox News, The Wall Street Journal and smart money. For the past 30 years, Bill has dedicated his work to bring awareness and clarity to the issues of long term care, and more importantly, how to prepare the bill. Thank you so much for joining us today. It's truly an honor. And as we know, this might be one of the most important questions surrounding care today. So let's start with the basics and the title of the show. How will the average American pay for long term care? And how do you rank those options? Yeah, that's a that's a great question. Causton, thanks for the opportunity to be with you.

Bill Comfort:

Most Americans, 80% of people who need care are cared for informally, by family or friends, spouse, a partner and adult child, some other loved one or someone close to them. And at first blush that might seem to be free, there's potentially are commonly no out of pocket cost to pay for your loved ones, your family members to take care of you. But it does come with a cost. It comes with the cost of changes in a relationship between a caregiving child and their parent. Lifestyle Changes physical, emotional, mental stress and health issues for the caregiver. So Family Care is part of the process is part of caregiving. But if it's only that type of informal care, there's a very, very high personal cost to it. It's interesting, I was just having a discussion earlier today, that even with other plans, even with good finances, a lot of savings or long term care insurance, which are other options as well. Family members will still provide care. And this idea of planning for care, which I know you want to talk about as well, is to really find a balance between all of those things. But the number one way care is received is personally from again, family friends loved ones, probably second only in terms of professional care paid for care, Medicaid, which is our, you know, financial support system for medical care. Medicaid is the largest payer of long term care services for people who need like help safely bathing and dressing or because of something like Alzheimer's or dementia. Medicaid is the number one payer problem with Medicaid is you essentially have to be impoverished financially to qualify. And that leaves us with paying out of pocket or buying insurance if you plan ahead. Most people don't plan to go on Medicaid particularly if they have some savings. Some means some income But they find that they're stuck with that, because it's the only choice because they failed to plan or over relying, I guess we might say on family members, if you fail to plan ahead.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

And I think once you have to accept Medicaid, you kind of lose control of all have the kind of individual kind of independence control of the care process, because you're having to rely on providers that are within the Medicaid network. And I know that a lot of states try to bring choice back into the Medicaid system, but it's still really hard. Yeah. And,

Bill Comfort:

and, and in first, you lose control of a lot of your finances, because of the financial minimum levels of of assets that you can't have, in order to qualify, and there's nothing wrong with Medicaid, it's a terrific safety net. The problem is, like you said, you you lose control for for many years. And still, in many states, Medicaid primarily means care in a nursing home. And last place most people ever want to plan to go. And even in states where there are some good home or community care benefits, they tend to be to be limited, limited in scope, or limited in access. So this idea of control, if I need care, this would be a planning ahead question. Where would I want to get care for myself for my spouse? Or, you know, for me and my family? That's a critical question to ask ahead of time, because you're right. If you end up on Medicaid, you're stuck with what the states providing based on, you know, how much money you have?

Kosta Yepifantsev:

Absolutely. And so let's say you don't qualify for Medicaid, and you didn't get a long term care policy. Let's say you're having to pay for it out of pocket. Realistically, what should the average individual prepare or save for their long term care needs? And is there a way to foresee these expenses and costs?

Bill Comfort:

Well, I think you have to foresee these expenses and costs because they're not covered by anything else. They're not covered by health insurance. They're not covered by Medicare, even if you have the best medicare supplement in the country, long term custodial care, day to day care with your safety, physically or mentally, cognitively getting through the day. Medicare doesn't pay for those things. So you do have to plan ahead. Now, what does it cost it and how much Somebody save, let's look at that in two parts, because there's a day to day or monthly cost of care to pay privately, again, for the services that we we call a personal care or custodial care, helping somebody be safe, physically, or because of a cognitive mental limitation, Alzheimer's or dementia, as I've mentioned. And depending on where you get the care, and the degree of care, you need sort of determines that monthly cost. And I'll give you a couple of examples in a moment. But the issue of savings is how long might the need for care last? You know,

Kosta Yepifantsev:

I mean, on average it go ahead? Well, I was gonna say on average, how often do they need long term care?

Bill Comfort:

Yeah. So it's a little tricky. So averages, right? Average, all the deans for care and men. average length of care once somebody needs what would be considered significant levels of care. So how with at least two of these physical activities, things like bathing, dressing, eating, transferring in and out of better a chair, so needing help with two of those activities, at least having someone around so you're safe, or supervision for things like cognitive impairments, Alzheimer's, dementia, stroke. Men, on average need care about two and a half years. Women need care, on average three and a half to four years. But here's an interesting data point to keep in mind. That's the average and half of the people who need this kind of care need it for less than a year? Inter so that that really brings the average down. So if we look, and I'm using here long term care insurance claims data, so it's very, the information is consistent whether it's a short claim or a long claim the type of care that's needed. Because well, and again, long term care insurance kicks in when you need help with two of the activities or cognitive supervision. Once someone needs care for at least one year, the average jumps to about four years for men and five years are a little longer for women. So what I tell folks is you should plan for men should plan for two and a half to four years of care. Women should plan for three and a half to five or six years of care. And here's the thing, we we don't know. It's one of those things we can't know. So we need to plan for as as much as we can, financially and practically, which brings us back to the cost of care. So 40 hours a week home care today costs anywhere from about $25 an hour to $30 an hour, depending on where you are in the country. So 40 hours a week of professional homecare, which is really part time, you know, that would be Monday through Friday, you know eight to five, so your adult daughter can continue her job and go to work or, or or a mix of things throughout the week to give a caregiver a break 40 hours a homecare is now$5,000 A month or more.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

And most people can't afford that.

Bill Comfort:

It because it's extra, especially think about this for couples. If one spouse needs care, and you're bringing in 30 or 40 hours a week of professional care, may be just to give that other spouse a break from caregiving to get a good night's sleep or go shopping or do things with his or her friends without worrying 40 hours a week that 5000 That's extra, on top of all of the life and living expenses that have to continue for both.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

Imagine that caregiver, they work a full time job, then they come home and they work a full time job. And then the significant other who supports in terms of respite care to give that other person a break? Also works a full time job. It's just there's so much involved in the care process. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to run, Oh, these are terror.

Bill Comfort:

You're exactly right. And one of the things that I like to say is it and and I primarily make my living selling Long Term Care Insurance, as you noted in the introduction, I'm a broker, I'm independent, I'm not beholden to any one company or type of insurance for that. But one of the things that it's critical to understand Long Term Care Insurance is not really for the person who needs care. So yeah, long term care insurance. If you need care, custom, a long term care insurance policy, it will pay for your care. But who does it protect? It protects everyone else in your life who loves you, and and would have no choice but to put their lives aside to make sure you're safe and to take care of you. So that's back to where we started that it works. Long term care insurance doesn't completely remove family involvement. But it lets you determine what family members loved ones will do or won't do time or tasks along the way.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

And so on that note, I mean, what age range is optimal to start creating a strategy for long term care and what do you think should be the top priorities?

Bill Comfort:

Yeah. The sort of the basic guideline is you should really need to be considering the subject by about age 5055. For sure. You know, that the most buyers of long term care insurance fall between 55 and 65 years old. So if you're 62 and you haven't done anything about it yet, Well, now's the time. I work with people in their late 60s early 70s that concern at that age, a the insurance side We'll see becomes much more expensive than if you bought it sooner, it still can be a good value. But the other issue is health. You have to health qualify? In other words, you need to be good enough to buy the insurance. Yeah, right. Right. So I really in your 50s, early 60s is when you need to be looking at the subject of planning for care. And considering if Long Term Care Insurance is needed, and how to what degree what amount should be used to fit in with your other financial plans.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

When they buy Long Term Care Insurance, is it like a term like do they buy 10 years worth of coverage? So if you buy it at 55? Does it cover you to 65? Or does it you know, is it like 20 years, or like till end of life, kind of like life insurance? And one of one other question that I'd like, Have you ever encountered people that maybe are suffering from a chronic illness? And they come to you and they say, Hey, I need to buy a long term care insurance? And you have to kind of say, well, listen, you know, you're kind of uninsurable. It's like crashing the car, and then trying to get auto insurance. And I know it sounds opaque talking about people instead of vehicles. But it's kind of the reality. Yeah, it's

Bill Comfort:

that that actually happens often. And it's, it's one of the harder aspects of my job. Most Listen, who wants to think about this subject when you're healthy and independent and feeling good? Right? Nobody does. In fact, all of us hope we never need care. Right? Or if we do, it's for a very short period of time at the very end of life. But the reality is, many of us, especially as we're successful living a long time into our 80s, and 90s, which is common today, and what we're all planning for, you know, with our retirement years, it's reasonable to expect we could need care for a few years along the way. But unfortunately, a lot of people don't think about it till their health changes, or they get a diagnosis of something, and I get the call. And I said, unfortunately, you know, that's a condition or circumstance that's just not insurable. Again, why you need to plan ahead, versus just be in a reacting kind of a mode. Your your first question, when you buy long term care insurance, and there's lots of different types of policies now, but when you buy it, the the expectation is, you buy it, and it covers you as long as you live. So there's not a there's not a term to the coverage, owning the coverage. So if you buy it at 55, and you don't need care till 87, long as you've paid up your policy, or you've been paying premiums along the way, that money that insurance money is going to be there. What gets confusing sometimes is one of the variables in designing your policy. Back to our discussion a couple of minutes ago, you choose how much per month the policy could make available. Three, four or $5,000. There's that's flexible. And the other important variable is how long will the policy payout once you need care? Right. So a five year policy, if you buy it at age 55. You know, it, it lasts until you're 85. The five years is just is how long the money would pay out once you would go out and claim at some time in the future.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

So the premium doesn't change for that 30 years that you're paying. Right. You're still paying the same amount of premium.

Bill Comfort:

It that's a that's a really it's a good question. It's an important question. Understand, there are policies that have guaranteed premiums today. They're more expensive than those that don't have guaranteed premiums. Most Long Term Care Insurance, at least historically. The way that it's priced, is the premiums are designed to stay level, okay, but they're not guaranteed to stay level. So, for example, the insurance company cannot raise your premiums just based on age or do changes in health. Or if you have a short claim, and you come off a claim and so on, they can only raise the rates if they realize that they have mispriced the premiums for everybody in the pool. And that's happened in the past. The good news is the pricing is much more conservative, much more stable. We think looking forward today on those policies that could be increased. Again, if somebody's deeply concerned about that, we do have plans where you can guarantee the premium.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

Yeah. And so I am curious, like, what about inflation? Like, say, for example, you know, you said that the typical hourly wage for a caregiver is somewhere between 25 and $30 an hour. And just being in the industry, I know that that number was closer to 16 and $25 an hour, you know, 10 years ago. So, you know, if a long term care policy pays a daily pre daily benefit, are there are there things or riders or something that you can purchase in a policy that will compensate for rising prices?

Bill Comfort:

Yeah, it's critically important because, again, you have to buy this coverage when you're independent and healthy. And most people are in their 50s or early 60s. So they're not going to use this coverage for at least 20 years, right, in most cases. And like everything else, the cost of care is going up, we'll continue to, in fact, you know, we got the Baby Boomers pushing into their mid 60s. And they haven't even started using care yet, whether it's home care or assisted living or memory care. So the the supply and demand is already a little out of whack. And it's only going to get worse, which is only going to drive prices up. Naturally. That's econ 101. Yeah. So you can buy and you use the right term a rider. So let's say you choose to start with a benefit that's 4000 a month and payable for four years, you can add a rider that will automatically grow that $4,000 A month benefit at a set interest percentage, and you can choose anywhere from 1% to 5%. Obviously, the higher growth rate has a higher premium. So you can you can build that in. And we recommend that. For most people, I've had some clients, it's an interesting approach. But let's say based on the cost of care today, they would need $4,000 A month if they needed care today. But we think that the cost of care could double in 20 years. So you could put a three or 4% inflation writer on it. I've had some clients, they buy 8000 today, but it stays level. Interesting. They're sort of buying more today to be ahead later, if something catastrophic happens sooner, while they're that much better off sooner. So there's a lot of different ways to design coverage. And there's no perfect way. The best way is what's right for each individual client.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

Absolutely. And so a brief answer, nothing too elaborate, because it make us go down a rabbit hole. But what happens if nobody plans? Like what happens if no one buys insurance, and no one saves for I mean, so many people don't save for retirement as is. I mean, is Medicaid the only option? Like is that just kind of the catch all for everybody who didn't plan?

Bill Comfort:

Well, I would say the first thing that happens and we're already seeing it, the burden falls to your loved ones to your family, or to other people could be friends, neighbors, folks in your church or temple or whatever who who have to make sure you're okay. Shan and and that's, again, there's there's a big personal price that gets paid by the caregivers. And then yeah, Medicaid is the is the backstop and it's it's growing the cost of Medicaid is already growing so fast. And we haven't even seen the boomers begin to enter caregiving years.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

You know if I'm, if I may speak briefly on the on the baby boomer generation, so there's an 80% of statistics says there's an 80% chance that somebody over the age of 75 as they get to end of life will act Access to long term care market, they will need some form of long term care for however long it may be. So baby boomers are born between 1946 1964, the first baby boomer turned 75 years old in 2021. And it is astounding to me that more people aren't talking about long term care insurance, and also all the families that are going to have to provide care and aren't going to be able to be in the workforce. Because there are no adult daycares to scale, as there are, you know, childcare centers and things like that. So I guess, just off the top of my head, something that pops into my mind, can we reduce the cost of care? I mean, do we have any options?

Bill Comfort:

We can, I think there's things that families or individuals can do in terms of what they spend. But again, if they need care, if they need supervision, it's going to fall to somebody. I think as a society, if we can find more less institutional settings, if somebody doesn't need a skilled licensed nursing home, can we deliver that in you know, a less acute kind of a setting less institutional type of a setting? I think that'll help. The problem is the volume at the the macro cost to our country, our communities? I don't think we have any escape from I think individually, we all need to take responsibility and do planning for ourselves and for our families, because that's what we can control. I think, you know, there's already some states that are doing some tax based additional long term care plans, Washington State's got one. But that's going to provide one year of benefits at 3000 a month.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

Right? And that's just not enough. It's not,

Bill Comfort:

it's not now, what it might do is it might keep you know that half of those people only need care for a year, might keep them off of Medicaid, might help someone stay at home for a year, before they might have to transition into a Medicaid setting. And those kinds of savings, you know, to taxpayers to government, I think could help. But it's not the big solution.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

Well, if I can infer what I believe could be, and I know that you're probably going to say yeah, I know. But we're a little bit, we're not there yet, you know, we're nowhere close. I do think that technological applications to removing the human element for care, because paying like you, like we were talking about earlier, paying a human being to care for another human being is extremely expensive. And if you're not willing to pay for it in money, you're gonna pay for it in time. So if you didn't invest it not just for retirement, but for long term care insurance, you're going to have a very hard time enjoying the last, you know, 2025 years of your life and have a high quality of living. Because you're going to be caring for a loved one or you yourself may need long term care. So I think that and when I say technological applications, I'm not you know, this isn't the Jetsons, you know, Rosie the robot, right? I'm not, I'm not talking about that. I'm just saying something simple as like remote supports, where you can have kind of a visual tool to ensure that somebody is safe. Geolocation is great for Alzheimer's and dementia. And really, it it goes back to exactly what you were saying about about making the plan about when the family will be involved when they won't be and breaking literally a day down to 24 hours and saying, okay, we can use this application to cover one hour, and we can use this application to cover another hour. Right? So

Bill Comfort:

and there will be you know, we think about robotic care and the Jetsons is sort of the the far edge of fantasy. And and on the other hand, we're seeing these little roll around robots that are being experimented with. It just feels creepy. Shouldn't you know 20 years from now, what was this 20 years ago? Yeah, it was a flip phone that you made phone calls on right? And now it's a super computer. So I think I think that has that holds a lot of promise. But here's the thing, not None of these are the answer. Correct? I think a combination of all of these things will become the answer technology, some robotic, the human caregiving is always going to be an aspect. And I'll tell you, we need to care pay these frontline caregivers even more today. Absolutely. They're getting and of course, that's it, that's inflationary itself. And it's the same with planning a big mistake cost that I see a lot of people make is they say, Well, you know, 40, or 50 hours of home care could be five or 6000 a month assisted living or memory care could be seven to 9000 a month and a nursing home, you know, could be 12,000 a month. And then they try to buy Long Term Care Insurance for nine or 10 or $12,000. a month of benefits. Yeah, that's unaffordable, right. But even three or 4000 a month, that could help provide that part time professional home care, without breaking the bank without destroying financial security, and giving the respite giving the break to the spouse, the partner, the kids that will help most people through the most common, let's call it two to four year care scenario. Sure, yeah. Worst case, worst case, there's Medicaid, or, you know, other financial means that somebody might have.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

I want to talk about the difference between retirement and long term care planning. How does retirement and investment planning differentiate from long term care planning?

Bill Comfort:

I think they're, they're integral. I don't think they're separate subjects. And I don't think they should be looked at separately, a good retirement plan, let's call it a retirement income plan. What will I live on in retirement? But will I live on what I choose to stop or have to stop earning a paycheck? That, you know, the whole premise of retirement planning today is based on this reasonable assumption that we could live to 8590, if not longer, and we need to be able to pay for life. Yeah. And if we live that long, I think I said this a little earlier, it's kind of reasonable that if I'm going to make it to 85, if not longer, it's reasonable to think I could need some care along the way. So long term care planning is a longevity planning issue the same way that retirement planning is a longevity driven issue. And it needs to work together. Let me come back to couples. If if one spouse needs care at 77 for two or three years, and then passes away, let's say it's the guy have been, it's not always the case, but men tend to die before women typically, you know, big picture. His partner, his wife, needs to be able to continue to live. He can't spend unlimited money on that first person that need care, because you got to protect the rest of the retirement savings, your care planning, again, part of that?

Kosta Yepifantsev:

And so do you see in your industry that a lot of people reach out to you and say, Hey, we're planning for retirement, we need a long term care policy, is that the conversation that you're starting to see now? Or have you been seeing it for years, and you're confident that we are at the point where Long Term Care becomes a staple? like car insurance?

Bill Comfort:

Yeah, we're not there. Okay, it's getting it's getting better. And in here's See, I'm I specialize in long term care insurance. So I network with, you know, care providers, CPAs, financial planners, estate planning attorneys, and part of my job is helping them to know how to raise the subject with their clients connected to the other planning they're doing. And those are good referrals to my business. And that's beginning to change. We're beginning to see these advisory professionals really begin to bring the subject up and say, Hey, this has to be part of the retirement planning. I kind of come in I'm in the relationship as a specialist in that way rate. But still, we only have like 10 12% market penetration with long term care insurance. I mean, and this is sort of looking at age, you know, 45 plus, so kind of the demographic that should be buying it or should own it. And there are estimates that 40 to 50% of Americans should buy it financially and can afford some meaningful amount and can still qualify medically. Half the folks are going to have medical issues, they can't qualify, or they have such low income and assets already. They're the ones Medicaid was really designed to protect from the bishop. So we got a long way to go. It's getting better. But man, we're not there yet. Who wants to think about a caster that Well, I mean, the biggest barrier,

Kosta Yepifantsev:

you know, and so developing, developing this podcast and talking about long term care. And prior to this, you know, we had a long term care channel where we did videos to bring awareness. And one of the most difficult things is, you find people looking at long term care, you see it from an insurance aspect, I see it from a service provision, and then I saw it on the YouTube channel, people look for long term care when they need it. And if they look for it, when they need it, then it's already too late.

Bill Comfort:

Right? If the options are limited, as you mentioned earlier, and the insurance is then really off the table as as a as a source of funds to pay for care. Yeah. So and that's driven, unfortunate doubt. Certainly, if there are folks in their 50s, where they're taking care of their parents, and they're seeing what's going on. That's a highly motivated person. And that's a, you know, that's a good it's an unfortunate motivator. But we have to start looking at this as a planning necessity, not just waiting for a crisis, because, again, like you said, so Well, the options are gone at that point.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

I think we're already in a crisis, to be quite honest with you, you know, as a country

Bill Comfort:

we are Yeah, but that's it get back to this idea of what can I take responsibility for, I can take responsibility for my life, my planning, my spouse, my families, lives and lifestyle, what can I do to protect them? As I also plan to care for myself.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

So we always like to end the show with a call to action. What's your best advice for someone entering the long term care industry as a patient, a caregiver, or an industry professional?

Bill Comfort:

Yeah, it for somebody who is on that cusp of of needing care, and their caregiver partner, you know, that family member, the best advice I could give to them, is to find a good independent care manager, Geriatric Care Manager, or social worker, maybe that's connected to, you know, a service provider, that can really help you think about not just who's going to be here on Tuesday when I have to go to work. But how can I help take care of myself, that's just that's so critical. If you're in the crisis. By the way, if you have a family member who needs care, and they have long term care insurance, get a review of it, find out what's in that policy that maybe somebody already has, because you can save yourself a lot of agony in the claims process it with a little bit of heads up work. And I guess the other group was, you know, maybe coming into this, you know, from the financial profession. This is this should be a growth area. This should be an opportunity for somebody who is interested in insurance, sales or financial planning, financial advising. And, and my message to other agents or advisors or folks coming in is you have to take advising authority and proactively raise the subject with your clients that you serve. Because again, if you don't, once they're in crisis, the options are very, very low. mitad it really, it's the advice to you and me as well, our peers our age, start thinking about it when you can. It's not an easy subject as much as I enjoy it and you enjoy the subject. It's, I recognize it's the majority of Americans don't. But it's like doing your wills and trusts and getting your power of attorney in order. You know, something you have to do. Yeah. And the good news is, if you do it well, it's not something you got to do every every year or every six months, you kind of do it once. And then you can get on with the rest of life securely. And it'll benefit you and it'll save you so much heartache in the future.

Kosta Yepifantsev:

So, Bill, thank you so much for being here today. I wish you the best of luck. And if there's anything that we can do here, please let us know. Have a great day.

Bill Comfort:

My pleasure. Thank you.

Caroline Moore:

Thank you for joining us on this episode of now our never Long Term Care strategy with Kosta Yepifantsev if you enjoyed listening and you want to hear more, make sure you subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you find your podcasts. Leave us a review or better yet, share this episode with a friend. Now our never Long Term Care strategy with Kosta Yepifantsev is a Kosta Yepifantsev production. Today's episode was written and produced by Morgan Franklin production assistants by Mike Franklin. Want to find out more about Kosta visit us at kostayepifantsev.com!

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